The Overwhelm of Making Holiday Magic

Holiday Magic

Rosie: [00:00:00] have a more festive, sweater on, but it was too hot, so I'm wearing, I was gonna be festive on top and then I'm literally wearing shorts on the bottom 'cause it's 72 degrees.

Welcome to the Moms for Social Justice podcast, where we talk about how you can make your community a more awesome place. This episode is about holiday overwhelm, and how it often falls to women to create the magic of the season, on top of everything else we already have to do. This imbalance in the distribution of household labor and care tasks can prevent women and mothers from engaging in projects that fuel them, like crafting something really cool, or volunteering for a cause that they're passionate about.

Mari, Taylor, and I talk about how our own parents did or did not split up these tasks and our own struggles in finding a balance in this holiday season with our partners. We also chat about how to establish standards with partners and family so that everyone, including us, has more time for holiday magic.

We hope [00:01:00] you enjoy this episode!

Rosie: . Welcome to the Moms for Social Justice podcast. Um, we are some of the moms for social justice. There's three of us, all three of us today. Moms for Social Justice is a progressive grassroots organization located in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

And we work to empower parents to fight for social justice and change in their own backyard. Um, so yeah, we, today we have Mari and Taylor. And, and me. I'm Rosie. Um,

and today we're gonna be talking about holiday overwhelm and the, mental load, the distribution of household labor around the holidays, all that stuff.

But before we get into that, um, we're just, we're just gonna talk about what's on our, on our heart. So, um, Mari, do you wanna go first? What's on your heart?

mari_1_11-17-2023_123740: Let's see.

Rosie: What's in your lungs?

Mari: Phlegm. [00:02:00] Phlegm is in my lungs. Yes. Just uh,

getting over,

Taylor: such a gross word.

Mari: isn't it? I kind of love it. It's like on a mono poetic, right? It's like,

Rosie: Oh yeah.

It sounds gross. . 'cause it is gross.

Mari: Anyway, um, I have that, I have phlegm from Covid. Uh, the whole fam has it. We're we're on the men though.

Um,

Rosie: We had that last Christmas. Speaking of like holidays

Mari: yes, this is the fourth time Covid has hit our house. Uh,

Taylor: Ugh.

Mari: first time it was just one of us. Then the second time it was three of us. Then the third time it was two of us. This time it was three of us. It's a lot. Um, anyway, but I think the biggest thing on my heart is just being super thankful for the vaccine. And I had just gotten the, the newest booster in early October, and I really think that is why I'm feeling so much better.

And,

Rosie: Mm-Hmm.

Mari: uh, you know, I'm just, I'm just very [00:03:00] thankful for science and I feel like,

Taylor: But Mari,

if you got the vaccine, you shouldn't have gotten Covid.

Mari: Well,

Taylor: Isn't that how that works?

Mari: I think

that's how that works.

Rosie: Same with the flu

Mari: But I, I did get Covid and I got a chip in my arm, so now I'm being tracked because

my phone wasn't enough. They didn't know that I was into art supplies and

liked fantasy romance books.

Taylor: from Mars?

Mari: the company or the, or the

Taylor: You want M and

mss?

Mari: I do,

Rosie: also. Yes.

Mari: dark chocolate Peanut M and mss Plug there. Yes. Anyway, I'm just super thankful. It's, it's a, a quick, easy thing, but I just feel like, you know, just a reminder that Covid is still around and that if you haven't gotten the booster and you're able to, please do because it, it helped me out a whole bunch.

Rosie: Yes. And it'll protect the more vulnerable members of your family, especially as we're like going around and

Mari: Mm-Hmm.

Rosie: and sneezing on [00:04:00] food and stuff.

Taylor: Yeah.

Rosie: I mean, not

Mari: Hug food.

Taylor: Double dipping in the

mac and cheese.

Rosie: I'm glad you're feeling better,

Mari: Thank you.

And I will be glad, uh, like we've all been home for the entirety

of this week and so that whole

Rosie: time to go somewhere.

Mari: they, they went out the window on day one. So

all of our brains are mush.

Rosie: Time.

It's nice outside. So, you know, shove 'em out there.

Taylor: Yeah. I am glad that you guys are coming on off the other side of that friend

and you.

look real cute, so we can tell you're feeling better.

Mari: Thank you.

Rosie: haircut.

Mari: I do have a good haircut. That's the only thing that made this whole week bearable, was the cute haircut.

Rosie: That's right.

Mari: studios

Rosie: Not sponsored, but also sponsored.

Um, all right, so Taylor, what's on your heart?

Taylor: You know, I have found that, you know, the, and I know I'm not alone here, the state of the world is just so incredibly overwhelming and heartbreaking that [00:05:00] I have found that I needed to take, you know, sort of mental Breaks,

Rosie: Yes.

Taylor: and I thought that's what I was doing when I tuned into, I mean, it's the number one show on Netflix right now. I think, uh, it's a docuseries about the internet cult twin Flame

universe.

Rosie: Whoa.

Taylor: Have you guys

Rosie: No, I never watch,

Taylor: about this?

Rosie: never watch documentaries on Netflix, so maybe I should I just listen to podcasts?

it. It sounds in very intriguing. I mean, all the cult stuff is like, yeah. Very intriguing.

Taylor: it's fascinating. Uh, I This is a whole other conversation how I feel like a lot of our, you know, mainstream religious culture in America is cult-like think and cult-like behavior that we have just

normalized. So we don't recognize it as that anymore. So it's interesting when they, um, highlight fringe cults because we have this collective, like that's so crazy that they believe that when you

stop to think about it, there are a lot of really [00:06:00] extreme beliefs that are just normalized. Um, but this one was a really Wild ride because it's a, a relatively, um, new cult that started in the pandemic. And so I thought

Rosie: Whoa.

Taylor: interesting that spoke to, and, and almost, um, exclusively online. So it spoke to number one, like the isolation that we all felt,

Rosie: mm-Hmm.

Taylor: in that, and particularly people who were alone going through, um, lockdown on their own, you know, sought these places online for, um, community and belonging and a sense of connection. And that can put you in a really vulnerable place where you can be sucked into something and then before you know it, you are thinking, um, really radical and extreme ideology and paying lots and lots and lots of money to people

who have zero credentials and unwarranted bravado and calling [00:07:00] themselves the master Christ. So anyway, it, uh, it was a really interesting watch, but also a really scary watch. And, um, it was what my brain needed to, you know, freak out about something else unrelated. So a highly recommended watch if you just wanna get real mad at average white boys, uh, taking lots

of

Rosie: that every day.

I do that every day.

Mari: morning average white boy, anger meditation,

Rosie: what shall I watch today? I've been watching the blue-Eyed Samurai on Netflix, so if you need something, it's like kill bill meets

Mari: Ooh.

Rosie: Um, it's really, really good. Also a very, not for children, I'd say animated very not for children, but anyway,

Taylor: noted

Rosie: recommended if you need more of an escape. Um, although it's very violent.

 Like we can, oh, I can watch the cartoon violence and it's fine, but, dealing with the, like social media violence is like too much for [00:08:00] me.

Mari: Ooh.

Rosie: Agreed. It's good to take a break from that stuff.

Mari: Yeah. It's hard to walk that line of like preserving our mental health, but staying

informed.

Rosie: Sure

Mari: And I think that's just been like a very, difficult thing to do really since, I don't know, even before 2016, really, just with the internet and with social media, it's just very hard. It's like you're either all in it and immersed in Feeling helpless and paralyzed, or every time something comes up, you just scroll because you can't, you can't deal with it In that moment. It's, yeah,

Rosie: well, the, the Washington Post released images of, uh, very graphic images of basically what an AR 15 could, can do, um, images, the aftermath of these mass shootings, Inc. Including, you know, some of these school shootings that we've, that we've seen after the bodies I think had been removed other than the Las Vegas.

Uh, seen and it's like [00:09:00] we're not necessarily the people that need to be seeing this , you know, like it's the, the people that are in power and the people that are advocating for keeping these guns, in, in our state and our nation, keeping them active that really need to see them. But, it's hard to balance of like, when do I need to like witness and understand versus when do I need to protect

my own mental health?

What, is it gonna be beneficial to me or not?

Yeah. That's

Mari: what is on your heart, Rosie?

Rosie: Oh, um, I, this week I have finished listening to all 500 albums on the Rolling Stones, 500 greatest albums of all time. It

Mari: Oh my gosh.

Rosie: all year,

Mari: is a

Rosie: was really fun.

Mari: It's been fun going on this journey with you sometimes in your car to various places

Rosie: Yeah.

Mari: hearing some of these

Rosie: Stevie Wonder album. Yeah.

Taylor: That's

Rosie: Um,

Mari: it

Rosie: yeah, I, I think it was, it was, it was fun and like I definitely have the privilege of a job [00:10:00] where I am moving squares and lines on a computer screen so that part of my brain can do that while my other part of the brain can like listen to song lyrics or podcasts or whatever.

Um, 'cause you know, the other, that's a lot of time to, so I'm, I'm curious what my Spotify rap is gonna look like at the end of the year. And then also just thinking about like, well, what challenge am I gonna do next? And my husband was like, well, you don't have to do a challenge. I'm like, yeah, I do.

What is my purpose? What is my, what do I, why do I exist in life if I don't have a challenge? Um, so yeah, I'm like, I'm weighing my, my options there. I can't do like two things, like watch a movie and design stuff that require, requires my eyeballs.

So,

 One, one of my favorite albums that I thought was, so, I just loved the concept of, and I just wanna share it with everybody. It's a Ray Charles album from 1962, and it is called Modern Sounds in Country Western Music. And he put this album together because at the time there [00:11:00] were black records and there were white records and never the two shall cross.

Um, so what he did is he took classic white country songs, dressed them up, took them to the orchestra, and played the shit out of them. And, um, they're amazing. Their arrangements are amazing. The instrumentation is amazing. His singing is amazing. I love that album and I love the concept behind it too. I thought it was so cool.

Um, so anyway, check that album out. That's one that you can pull from the list that I thought was great. I mean, there's so many that great.

Taylor: cool. I'm totally gonna do

that.

Mari: too.

Rosie: Okay, so we're gonna be getting into our topic, which is about the overwhelm of the holiday season and just how so much of this domestic labor and emotional labor falls on women, in, in households. And just, I'm just curious, like, what was it like when you guys were kids? What were the holidays like?

What did you see your parents doing or [00:12:00] not doing?

Mari: Most of the holiday magic did fall to my mom. In fact, a lot of times my dad would, uh, would not be home on Christmas Eve. That's when we

do like opening all of our gifts and stuff, because that's just our tradition. And every other year he would have to work and be on call. He had a cabin rental business and they went above

and beyond. So if someone couldn't get to their cabin because of snow, my dad literally drove them.

So

Rosie: I imagine a lot of people are like renting cabins for, you know, Christmas, get together or

Mari: yes, lots of people in Gatlinburg. Uh, so yeah, a lot of it fell to my mom. But it was being just me, you know, as an only child, like my mom and I, as I got older, we, she and I would really get into decorating together. We'd have so much fun. We would be making things for the theme that year. You know, we had, we really enjoyed that. Uh, but you know, as far as like. You know, all the piano [00:13:00] recitals and, and the, singing in church. Yes, I did that. mY, you know, she would be taking me to all the things, you know, if my, my dad was in the mood, he would go to church and listen, which, you know, now being how I feel about things, I would've never been in the mood to go to church, but

Rosie: He's like, I believe in Jesus today, but I don't know about

Mari: Every other day. No, not so much. Um, yeah, so it was mostly my mom. I don't really remember the holidays being too crazy hectic because I didn't have a very big family. It was just my great aunt that would come stay with us from New York City. She would come for like a month. I have amazing memories of it, but I, I do know that, like thinking back and doing it for my own family, I'm like, oh yeah, that was all my mom. , now my dad definitely took over all of the food.

Rosie: Hmm.

Mari: that was nice. You know, as far as like what we were gonna have for Christmas Eve dinner and Christmas morning breakfast and, and all that stuff. [00:14:00] He would, you know, buy all the stuff, play on the menu, make it, it would be delicious. And we just kind of showed up.

So I know that's a little bit different. Um, 'cause usually

that falls Yeah. Kinda wish that was still the case.

Rosie: And you guys don't have a theme every Christmas.

Mari: sometimes

Taylor: love that.

Mari: we would yes,

Taylor: Give us a couple of themes, Mari.

Mari: One was the secret garden.

Rosie: What?

Taylor: Stop it.

Rosie: cool,

Mari: We like collected, um, like chi, like China teacups and stuff from like different thrift stores. And we would incorporate the, I don't know, we were a little extra. Um, one year we did like

all

Taylor: can't tell that at all about you as an adult. I, I'm,

it's

Rosie: I know. I love that. I'm leading this podcast with two Christmas queens, so

Mari: Yeah,

Rosie: I feel like I should

Mari: atheist Christmas queens,

Rosie: leading it. Yeah,

Mari: Yes. I know. It's, it is funny. But yeah. Um, we, we went all in one year. We did like a crystal, but like [00:15:00] from old chandeliers, like

Rosie: Wow.

So you would decorate your trees like this, or like all throughout?

Mari: all throughout the

Rosie: Wow.

Mari: We

really only had one tree

Rosie: But that sounds so

Mari: I have graduated to having like five.

But

Rosie: Yeah. Exact Christmas queen,

. No, but I think that sounds fun. Especially knowing like your dad, he sounded like super busy during that time, so it was a lot of one-on-one time with you and your mom, and so that's cool that you guys were able to like build those memories together.

Um, Taylor, what about you?

Taylor: Well, uh, I do come from a very big family. So our holidays, uh, what I remember, were just incredibly chaotic. Lots of children running around. Um, lots of grown men screaming at the television,

watching football,, throwing furniture. I'm kidding. I mean, sometimes,

Rosie: Extreme

Taylor: But it, there was a definite gender division in labor, so I have very [00:16:00] strong memories of all of the women in my family at the time that my grandmother was alive.

You know, she was a, a really, a true matriarch, you know, in the center of the kitchen. But all of the daughters in-law, because my grandmother had four boys, and so it was all the wives,

Rosie: Mm.

Taylor: um, would all, would all be in the kitchen. all morning long and, lay out this beautiful absurdly, you know, huge spread.

If you can imagine what it is to cook for 40 people. We would all eat. There was the, you know, the, the proverbial kids' table

Rosie: Mm-Hmm.

Taylor: all of us were, were relegated to sometimes out in the garage. I remember the year that I graduated to the adult table was a, a big, big deal. Uh, but I get, I remember even as a kid feeling very frustrated that after all of that cooking, then all the women in my family also cleaned everything[00:17:00]

Rosie: Right, because the dads all had to go watch the game or whatever.

Taylor: absolutely fall asleep in their chairs watching football. And I remember having just a very. Strong sense of, injustice. I, I don't mean to use that word lightly, but even as a kid, that struck me as very unfair. And I knew that I did not want that as an

Rosie: Mm-Hmm.

Taylor: I will say, uh, as a mom and you know, as a wife myself, I. I will admit that a lot of the, the labor and like the emotional and um, just the mental load of planning the holidays and, planning the gifts, buying all the gifts, wrapping all the gifts, planning the menu, uh, planning. And we know that like the time around the holidays are just very busy. You, you take your kids to go see the Nutcracker, you take your kids to go see the Christmas lights,

to go to go visit

Rosie: done that yet.

Taylor: [00:18:00] all the things, there are, so there are all these little activities that

we do

Rosie: go along with it. Yeah.

Taylor: Yeah.

Um,

Rosie: It's not just the day. Yeah.

Mari: right?

It's the lead up. Yeah.

Taylor: So yeah, even though I, I really told myself as a kid that I was not gonna let all of that fall on my shoulders it,

it has, and part of it I will take some responsibility because I love it.

Rosie: Mm-Hmm.

Taylor: I love it. And I do have a, this, you know, feeling that I'm going to do it because I'm going to do it right.

Mari: Mm-Hmm.

Rosie: Mm-Hmm.

This is the way that I want it. Yeah.

Taylor: yes, if I relinquish control of, of, you know, orchestrating this, this masterpiece, the symphony of holiday magic, then it's not gonna be done, uh, the way that I want.

So I,

I

Mari: not be hung by the chimney with care. They will

be hung haphazardly in different

Taylor: out of order.

Rosie: on fire.

Taylor: So, [00:19:00] yeah, I, there there's, um. Yeah, there's personal responsibility, but then there's also, I think just, just the,

Mari: expectation.

Taylor: the expectation of, you know, the, the patriarchal structure that we have that these, uh, these duties fall on the mom. Now, I will say that the cooking and the cleaning is a little more divided, which I appreciate.

Rosie: , yeah, that's, that's interesting. 'cause I feel like mine is a blend of both of yours. In that, like, my dad did all of the holiday cooking, you know, for Thanksgiving and for Christmas. He enjoys that, especially like the baking part., And even like at the big get togethers, um, also like . Came from a big, big family, especially on my dad's side.

Um, it would be like my grandma in the kitchen with like my dad and my uncles, um, because I guess she like did an awesome job of like really imparting, you know, enjoyment of cooking [00:20:00] to her sons. Um, and my, and my aunt, her,

Taylor: I love that

Rosie: tHere's like a saying in my family like, don't be a Mary Jane.

'cause my grandma, she always, like, she never sits down. I mean she does now because she's in her nineties, but

Mari: She has to

Taylor: She has

earned

Rosie: has earned it. Yeah. But she would always just be like, you know, fu fussing with some other aspect of the meal or whatever. Um, and my mom, uh, being, uh, an RN working long hours, my dad took over quite a bit of the holiday magic.

He was the one who set up all of the lights outside and he would drive us around and look at all of the neighbor's lights and turn on Christmas music, um, and make sure that we had like Christmas treats and stuff like that. But I will say like, come Christmas time, he was just as surprised as we were when it came time to open the presents

Mari: Woo. You got that?

I mean, yes. Mm-Hmm?

Rosie: he, he, and, um, he and one of my uncles, they would [00:21:00] like, they would time each other, like, how quickly could they shop for their wives for Christmas? And my mom would like return basically every present, every year that he would buy. He did try, bless his heart. Growing up it was definitely, I felt more of like an even split. Um, and there were, there were instances like, you know, my mom would have to work Christmas Eve or uh, Christmas Day. And so we would, work around like her schedule and stuff.

We only went to midnight mass one time though, and that was because I, her, 'cause of her, she had to work Christmas Day. So then she, like, she stayed behind because she's not Catholic. And then, um, oh, when we came back, oh my god, Santa has been here. amazing. We can open presents and then we can all go to sleep 'cause mom's gonna work tomorrow.

Uh, stuff like that.

Mari: Santa

knew. Santa was like they needed it a little different time.

Taylor: Yeah,

Rosie: yes.

Taylor: it's the magic of

Santa.

Rosie: And so Taylor, I mean you talked about this a little bit, but how have you [00:22:00] split up tasks or not split up tasks now as an adult and like creating magic in your house? Because Yeah, you both are. Amazing at Christmas, and you do all of these, like, your houses are so cool and have like literal light shows and you have like multiple Christmas trees and all of these like events and traditions going up to that and like, yeah.

How, how do you divide that and how do you, how do you feel about it?

Taylor: When I was starting, the process of, of beginning our family, basically when I found out I was pregnant with my first son, I, you know, I started fantasizing about holidays because that's

Rosie: That's like the pinnacle to you? Yeah.

Taylor: Yeah, that's, that's something that I really love.

And, and the idea as a mother to be able to, you know, create these, um, experiences that what I hope will be really foundational and core memories. It's not about, um, it's not about the stuff and it's not about, [00:23:00] you know, the gifts or whatever. It, it's really, um, what I'm hoping is that my kids will have these memories where, there was just intense love and togetherness and, you know, shared experiences.

And so when I say that I, I have to take responsibility for the stress and the, the overload that I feel is because I take it on.

Rosie: Mm.

Taylor: if it were, you know, if it were up to my husband, it would be a lot more, paired down and.

Rosie: To be fair, he puts on an entire light show. Uh, then the front of your house. So, you know,

Taylor: Listen,

it's true. We, we all have hobbies. My, uh, it's funny, uh, both of our

mari and my husband's hobbies are elaborate. Um, LED light shows on our houses because they're big nerds,

Rosie: just a casual

Taylor: that's, [00:24:00] that's okay.

Rosie: a cool,

like,

Taylor: do, you know, do what brings you joy darling. And for him it's hours and hours and hours

building,

uh, an LED light show on our house.

But that's okay because that also has created a sense of togetherness and community within our neighborhood. And it's just a fun thing that I hope, you know, our kids will have really fond memories of.

Rosie: and maybe it's stressful for them, but you know, like you were saying, that's something that like, you have the things that you wanna take on and they have the things that they wanna take on, and there is like a partnership there and create, you know, creating this. Larger, I don't know, memory or, season.

Taylor: Yeah. Yeah.

Rosie: Is it the same in your house, Murray, where you take on more of the bulk of like the inside stuff?

Mari: Yes. And all of the planning and the, you know, whew. Yeah, it definitely mostly falls to me. aNd I wish it were a little bit different sometimes, and I don't think, you know, [00:25:00] we never sat down when we, you know, first got married and like, said, how are we gonna divide this up? You know? Uh, I, I feel like people have that misconception, and I know some people actually do do that, but I think of the majority of people, things just sort of happen and then once you're kind of locked into something, it's really hard to, to change.

Rosie: Yeah. I like my, you know, I've always folded my laundry this way. Okay. Well, never had a sit, never sat down and had a conversation with my husband about like, you know, do we actually need to fold it this way? Or can I just chuck it in a drawer? Yeah, those conversations, it, it's just like, yeah. Stuff, uh, happens more organically rather than sitting down and saying like, this is our vision.

Like this, this is how we want this to look for our family. , and being really intentional about it, which I think, you know, that's a, that's a hot tip. If you're feeling overwhelmed, maybe sit down with your spouse and say, have a conversation and say like, here's what's important to me. [00:26:00] Here's what's important to you.

Wow. I was stressed out about, about this thing that is not important to either of us, so let's get rid of it.

Mari: That's that's very true. , and I think one thing, like just during this conversation we are having, that sort of makes me sad and a little emotional. I don't know Rosie if this is similar for you, but, I don't wanna sound selfish, but I do feel like no one is making Christmas magical for us.

Rosie: Mm. Yeah. No

Mari: I know, and I don't know if you all have seen it's, it's a skit. And it's funny with the SNL skit where Kristen Wig gets the robe. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Rosie: Oh yeah,

Taylor: yes.

And mom got a robe

Mari: I got a this and I got this and I got this robe

Taylor: and it still has the

Mari: and it

has the tag, and it was 40% off. And then she's like, they're talking about their stockings, and she's like, and mine's completely empty, just [00:27:00] a sock hanging on the, you know, like,

Rosie: To be fair, I don't make it magical for my husband either, so. We, we mutually do not make it magical for each other.

Mari: that's, that's true. But I also feel like, I don't know how to put it. It's not, it's not really, it's even being allowed to have the time and the space to maybe do things

that

Rosie: I wanna go to Rock City and see the lights by

Mari: yeah. Or even like I, you know. For me, I would love to just like listen to Christmas music and soap, my tea and maybe read, or, you know, it's not even like I'm, it, it's a, yeah, it's having that time. But the problem is, is all of the time is full with

making it magical for everyone else.

Rosie: Okay. So that, that brings, I was like looking at researching this a little bit beforehand and this list drove me nuts. So it was an article about like how to, how to deal with the overwhelming holidays. Here's five helpful tips that [00:28:00] you could do, um, carve out time for yourself each week. Journal exercise, ask for help and seek counseling.

And I'm like, none of those things. And, and, and the counseling one was like, yeah, you're feeling really overwhelmed right now and like maybe you should talk to a therapist about it and like maybe talk to your spouse about this. Like, none of those things can happen without having a, a supportive partner

to actually like carve out time for your space for yourself.

You cannot do that if, if you have kids and there's nobody else to hold up the house for you while you do that.

Taylor: And, and the, the extra money to do that.

I mean, that, that's something that

we're not even kind of talking

about here is, you know, the,

Rosie: Financial

Taylor: financial pressure

of the holidays.

To some extent, we have to acknowledge that we're coming from a place of, of, you know, privilege that we can even talk about

having holiday stress because,

you know, we have the ability to have, take our kids

to these [00:29:00] experiences and, and buy them gifts.

And so, you know, let's, let's take some time and space to acknowledge that for some people the pressure of the holidays is to make any sort of

holidays. Yeah, Rosie, I can see why you would be so frustrated by that list when all of that suggests time and money that are non-existent in this season of the year.

Rosie: Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. And I will say, so like my, my husband and I, we, we have never sat down and, you know, had that conversation of this is what we want it to look like. But it's been a gradual, like all these smaller conversations and gradual nudge, like the big Christmas meal, honestly, I don't give a fucking shit about that

All I care about is the Christmas log that I make, or like some sort of fancy dessert. But we can go to

Taylor: What's a Christmas

Rosie: a yuel log, it's like a cake,

and, and then you roll, you put mousse in it, and then you roll it, and then you decorate the outside with ganache. My dad [00:30:00] makes it every year. But the thing is, here's the big thing for us.

We do not go home, uh, to Cincinnati where both of our families are live. We do not go for Christmas, we go for Thanksgiving.

Mari: Mm-Hmm.

Rosie: We do go not, we don't go for Christmas. Part of that is like weather. We're worried about weather, and part of it is just like, it's really stressful to do that and to like,

if we're hauling presents and yeah, how do we fit that in?

And all of the travel and stuff. We, we did that before. Um, we had kids, um, every year and it was just, my husband's parents are divorced, so then in inevitably with these big holiday events, you're going to like three or four or more of, you know, different dinners or lunches or events or whatever. , and so just like

Uh, honestly, I love Christmas. I love my family and you know, if they came here and hung out with us, that would be wonderful. But I love Christmas because it's just for us. I love the magic [00:31:00] of Christmas for me is like waking up at the ash crack of dawn on Christmas morning and, you know, we can barely talk 'cause our throats are like, our voices are so froggy and watching our kids open presents and then just like playing with our kids all day.

And like me not cooking, that's like my ideal Christmas.

Taylor: I love that.

Rosie: Um, and like, you know, watching Christmas movies, like doing nothing

is great. And so it, it's just been a gradual move toward that. Um, and it, like, my husband does not give a shit about Christmas at all. Like obviously he cares for our kids and he wants them to have a good experience and good memories and get Christmas gifts and stuff like that.

 I, I'm the one similarly, like, I'm the one who caress a little bit more about some of those, like making magic and tradition. So I'm the one who decorates the outside of our house, and I'm the one who, we have a tradition every year where, we'll, we'll get like cookies and we'll drive around and like, we'll go to your houses and look at the , the Light Show[00:32:00]

and look at the other neighbor's houses and stuff like that. Um,

Mari: aren't as cool as ours.

Rosie: yeah. Or, but like

Mari: I'm kidding.

Rosie: not, no, they're not. Let's be, let's be clear they're not. It's cool. Um, but you know, like I'll buy, you know, and we might do like one thing of Christmas baking or something like that. Um, or I'll buy the, like Trader Joe's build a gingerbread house.

Everything's already baked for you. . I'll do that. Um.

Taylor: are solid. The TJ gingerbread houses are solid.

Rosie: Yes. They are literally solid

Mari: Literally solid

Taylor: don't wanna eat

Rosie: You don't wanna eat them.

Taylor: you can actually build a structure out of them. Yeah. You know, I'm curious about, um, our kids' perceptions of things

because, um, you know, this happened recently about a, I don't know, a couple of weeks ago, whenever a career date was for our kids that my boys. Just very[00:33:00] nonchalantly said to me, well, we didn't ask you to come to career day mom, 'cause you don't have a job.

Rosie: Hmm?

Taylor: And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

whoa.

Mari: Let's have

a conversation, boys.

Taylor: we're gonna have a, we're gonna have a life lesson here,

boys. Let's talk about the value of unpaid

Mari: Mm-Hmm.

Rosie: Right.

Taylor: I had to have that conversation with them that, the work that I do in our home makes our lives, uh, possible.

It makes your dad's, uh, career

possible. I, make sure that you have everything in your life that you need and that you get to your doctor's appointments and therapy appointments and school and haircuts and you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. and and then as the holiday season's coming upon us, all of that falls squarely on my shoulders as well. And, you know, I, I make that stuff magical for you. When I go back to the paid working force and then so many women who are in the paid working force, and then also do

[00:34:00] all of these things that I'm describing, um, it's just really interesting the perception that our kids have of the labor that we're doing and the value of it. And I think it's our our shared

responsibility to make sure that they understand that What we're doing comes at high, high cost, both in time, energy, and, uh, has it, it brings a lot of value to their lives and their childhoods.

Mari: Mm-Hmm.

Rosie: Well, and like, you know, as they get older, you talk about Mari like spending time with your mom make, like making some of this magic with her, which in of, in that in of itself is magic.

 But like I know my daughter . She loves the holidays, she's always asking to decorate. I always get, compared to my sister who's like, also just like queen of all like birthdays and parties and events and stuff, holidays, stuff like that.

And I'm at the opposite of that. And you know, she'll, [00:35:00] she'll make comparisons like, why can't you be more like aunt , but like this past Halloween that she wanted to decorate the outside of the house, which we have standard, you know, decorations or whatever. And I was, I was just really busy. And so I'm like, okay, we'll get to it.

We'll get to it. And so what happened is like one day she and the neighborhood kids, they like, I'm like, if you guys wanna go in the garage and like get that stuff out, you go for it. And they did it. They, you know, I did some after and but, but they put out like the bulk of the main decorations

Taylor: That's so fun.

Rosie: Yeah.

And it's like the same thing for the, you know, in inside stuff too. And like, let's do it together. Um, and I, but again, like that's one of the things, like I have a table that I put a couple decorations on and like a Christmas tree and that's it. Oh. And I like a soap dispenser in the bathroom and that's it.

Um,

Mari: goodness,

Rosie: soap dispenser is key. It's 'cause it's, 'cause we saw it a target a few years ago and then we got big [00:36:00] dreams of like, what if we decorated the whole bathroom for Christmas? And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Maybe this like hand towel and a

Taylor: Slow down. Ha. Yeah,

Mari: Oh, I, as, as you're saying this, I just did the, our bathroom with a Christmas shower curtain

Rosie: Oh

Mari: that I swapped out. Yep.

Rosie: Yeah. But the thing is like,

Mari: this point,

Rosie: I, like, I don't, I don't care about that stuff as, as much. Um, and that's neither good nor bad.

Mari: No, exactly.

Rosie: is what It is.

Mari: It is.

Rosie: Um, but eliminating that pressure from myself has made me talking with my husband, it's like, well, what is, how are you gonna enjoy it yourself?

And it's like, oh, if I don't have to cook,

Mari: right?

Rosie: that's great for me. I would enjoy that. That would make the day good for me. The other, the other thing that I wanna talk about too is, family relationships. Because again, that's something that often falls to moms, to the women of the house, is like upholding these relationships with family members.

 And I'm wondering

[00:37:00] what your experience with that is, because that is another thing that I've, I've let go of a lot in order to like be more at peace. And honestly, like, if I had more time, I think I would do more of these things. But like, when it comes to family relationships, if, if I'm invested in that person, then I will make it a

priority to continue that relationship or reach out or whatever.

But if that person is not continually like reaching back to us and like . You know, and if it's a member of his family, I'm gonna let that go

like that's on you husband if you wanna

maintain that relationship. But they're not making an effort here, so I'm not gonna make an effort either.

Mari: I think that at the beginning of our relationship, I thought that was my duty because I'd seen my mom do it.

Rosie: Mm-Hmm?

Mari: and other female family members do that for their families. As I've gotten older, I have, I've let more of that go and kind of said like, if this is [00:38:00] important to you, you can keep these, these communication lines open. You know, who are we sending gifts to? Whatever it

is. That does kind of take a conversation though, because

for a little while in between. There was some like resentment of like, a few days before being like, well, I thought that was, you know, I didn't know that we were going to this event and, uh,

you didn't communicate to anyone .

So I, I've gotten better, but I do think, that's, that's something that, I don't know, the resentment and some of, there's some underlying anger

I think. Like, and, and it's not just having to do with family members and stuff, but I think sometimes that brings it out. But just around this whole conversation is we probably all do in different ways and just the mental load in general, because it seems so invisible. But yeah, I, I definitely feel like, doubt that, my husband has like some underlying anger issues around the holidays

Rosie: [00:39:00] Mm.

Mari: feels like too much is expected of him, you

know,

Rosie: right, right. Yeah. Well, and like to, to your point, Mari, like I, I often go take the kids to Cincinnati by myself because my husband, his work, he gets Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's off, and those are his three holidays. Like he doesn't have a lot of . Extra PTO and time off and like, you know, he can't take a long weekend 'cause he doesn't get that day off.

So I'm often the ones taking them up to see family and then I'm, that means that I end up being the one responsible for maintaining those ties.

And that means I'm the one that gets yelled at if I don't see so and so while I'm in town or if I don't go to such and such event or whatever. Like my husband's dad, I don't see him when I go to Cincinnati because he doesn't make an effort

to like maintain a relationship with our family. if my husband wants to maintain that relationship with his dad, then by all means [00:40:00] that's his relationship and not mine.

Taylor: Sure.

Rosie: Is that also the case Taylor, with, with you, where you're feeling like, or is it more evenly?

Taylor: yeah, you know, my, my husband has a small family,

Rosie: Mm

Taylor: I'm the one with the big family,

so

yeah. It's on.

Rosie: There's more pressure just because of the size of your family?

Taylor: Yeah.

Yeah. Being the, the only girl in my family and the eldest, I. I do feel just a lot of personal responsibility to keep family communication lines,, open and, I, am often, well, I notice that it's always the women, myself and my sister-in-Law

Rosie: Mm-Hmm.

Taylor: mother,

um, orchestrating gatherings and birthdays and,

you know, the things that, you know, mari to, to kind of what you were saying.

It's like, I think the holidays often come because the mental and emotional load of the holidays, it, it heightens, it's on top of everything

that we already do.[00:41:00] I think you're right sometimes those underlying, why is this always on me? Why does this fall on me all the time?

Rosie: Mm-Hmm.

Mari: I the only one who caress about this? Why?

Yeah.

Rosie: Mm-Hmm.

Taylor: uh, those feelings sometimes seep out and I think that's really important to keep, Tabs on just with within yourself. Like if you find it, I think it's natural for those feelings to, come out here and there. But if you have

a really overwhelming sense of there is too much that is falling on me to where you cannot enjoy your, um, the

season that you're supposed to also feel love and happiness and together togetherness with your family.

If that's not an enjoyable thing for you, then I think it's worth sitting down with your,

with your partner and journaling.

Mari: just kidding.

Rosie: about it.

Taylor: Have

Rosie: hate

Taylor: cup of tea.

Mari: That helpful list. Please

share that in the show notes so we can all benefit from journaling and, [00:42:00] and exercising

Taylor: Oh,

Rosie: going to therapy to bitch about our partners that we can't talk to.

Mari: Right?

What if we each kind of said something, maybe we were gonna do this holiday season as it's starting to, to edge toward pandemonium that, to maybe alleviate some of this. And I, I hate that it's us and it usually is like the person

Rosie: Mm-Hmm.

Mari: who feels the most overwhelmed,

Taylor: Mm-Hmm.

Mari: has to be like. I'm gonna read this book called Fair Play and figure out a Better System.

Rosie: It's a great bug.

Mari: And it's a great book. We, yeah, we did a, a workshop on it. It was really cool.

Rosie: Well, I, I was gonna to piggyback on that. I was gonna ask how are you gonna create some magic for yourself

Mari: Yes. I love

Rosie: season?, I'm gonna buy a really nice journal for myself.

Mari: and

never open it.

Taylor: I have so many unopened journals, y'all and calendars.

Mari: Yeah.

Taylor: Alright,

Rosie: my gosh, that does, that just ruined [00:43:00] me of a present. I do need to get my husband, I got him a dog shitting calendar last year, so it's like illustrations of it, like a family skiing and then there's like a golden retriever. Who's pooping in the background?

Taylor: I love that.

Rosie: So I gotta see if there's a new one. Um. Well, I wanna say I today be at, you know, thinking about that we were gonna have this conversation, I did reach out to my husband because we do not have a very cool LED light show in our hou in front of our house, but we do have lights and every year there's like strands that are broken.

And it's overwhelming because I don't really don't wanna go out and spend more money on more strands that are just gonna break next year. So I send him a text and I was like, Hey, this feels really overwhelming to me and I want, uh, our front of our house to look kind of nice and I never feel good about it.

And do you think you can help me with this? Whether like we can repair the lights or do something different that will, that, that will be satisfactory. , him being [00:44:00] awesome was like, sure, we can do that. I don't know how much we can do, but we'll figure it out.

Taylor: That's awesome.

Rosie: Um, and so.

Mari: just sharing some of that like burden, like that's something you are thinking about that's stressing you out, that no one would know was stressing you out unless you voiced it. yeAh, so I mean, to get back to that great list, it did say ask for help. So I,

I do feel like, but I, I, I hate that it's framed. Ask for help. I think it should be more like, let

your partner and your family know like

Rosie: Expectations.

Mari: about. Yes, exactly. And like, yeah, like you said, having that conversation of like, we don't, neither of us care about this thing.

Why are we even doing it?

Like, I would say this year, I'm, I'm, I'm leaning toward that with the Christmas cards, which

Rosie: Oh, I don't do Christmas

Mari: I know a lot of people don't, a lot of people don't. And I, I don't know, I don't know what I'm feeling this year, but part of me is like, what would it look like if I let that go and [00:45:00] didn't

Rosie: like it

Taylor: Oh,

Rosie: okay,

Mari: It might be okay.

People

Rosie: but I do

Mari: know that we exist

Rosie: I do like receiving

Mari: I do too. I do too, but,

Rosie: I'm not gonna send you one though.

Mari: right. No,

I know

Rosie: graphic designer too, so people are always so surprised. I'm like, you don't send Christmas cards? I'm like, no, it's the last thing I wanna design.

Mari: Right.

Taylor: I'm one of those that sends them like every four years or so. And so.

it just shocks people. They're like, Oh, Oh.

Mari: They, they're still

around

Taylor: You're

still

Mari: have a baby?

Rosie: I think you should try letting it go this year

Mari: Yeah, I might.

Taylor: we give you permission, Mari,

let it go.

Mari: you friends.

Taylor: I, what I did already is, , my husband God, love him. He really tries, for me with gifts and he is, uh, creative and, and, has come up with some interesting things. But I basically just laid it out to him this year. I was like, look, I don't want gifts. I want this thing for the house.

Mari: Hmm.

Taylor: That, that's what will bring me [00:46:00] joy. It will bring our entire family joy. This

Rosie: Wait, what? I'll, I

Mari: is it?

a giant fountain statue of

Taylor: of myself.

Mari: of

Taylor: Oh, it's myself as

Mari: and Jesus.

Taylor: I'm getting our, our fireplace has

never worked.

 sO we are getting gas, logs, which

I know people have different feelings about that. And that's fine. It's on a remote. I can turn it on and it will not make my entire house smell like smoke. So

Mari: Yay.

Rosie: yay.

Taylor: I'm very excited.

Mari: I love that.

Taylor: Thank you.

So you can

Mari: for a cozy winter.

Rosie: Mm-Hmm? . Mm-Hmm.

Taylor: cup of tea with me

by the, by the fake fire. Um, before I wanna know everybody's favorite holiday movie though.

Mari: Oh, that's important. Okay. Can we, can I do mine by like kids nostalgia one and like adult like deep in the feels One.

Rosie: Wait, hold on. I gotta look up the list. I'm not a movie

Mari: Oh my gosh. She has to look up a list. Taylor, [00:47:00] why do we even, why do we even

try with Rosie?

No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Okay, so favorite kids? Nostalgic. Like, as soon as I hear the music, I'm like, it's Christmas is home alone. But my favorite, like adult watch it without the kids, like just sob on my own is the family stone, which I feel like is a little bit of a

un like un

Rosie: Mm-Hmm. . I haven't seen that one.

Mari: Oh, Sarah Jessica

Parker. Claire Danes.

Taylor: It's so good.

Mari: Uh, oh my gosh. It's so good. It's funny. And also you sob. That's the, that's what

I want out of a

Rosie: you cry

Mari: Oh, you don't just cry, you

Rosie: Oh, I don't like those . It's too many feelings.

Mari: I, I love, oh, right, we talked about this. I love feelings. I have a lot of them. I wanna see other people having feelings. I wanna participate in their feelings.

Taylor: promote big

Mari: Mm-Hmm? . Yes.

Taylor: Um, okay, so my childhood favorite is the Muppet Christmas

Carol.

Mari: yes.

Taylor: [00:48:00] And my kids live it too now.

And I love it when my, when my kids are walking around the house going where? Marley and Marley. Yes, I

have succeeded. And then, I'm sorry. I love Christmas vacation..

My husband and I quote it, you know,

Mari: Why is the carpet all wet? Todd

Taylor: don't know. Margot.

Mari: Yours?

Rosie: have not seen Christmas vacation.

Mari: Oh no. We've done a bad

Taylor: Holy shit. Rosie.

Rosie: Yeah. I don't watch a lot of, um, I would just, let's see. My favorite kids one is the Year Without a Santa Claus.

Mari: Okay.

Mm-Hmm? , Franken and Bass.

Rosie: yes,

I loved all of, all of those. Actually. I really loved the Easter one too.

Mari: They're, they're precious. That's

like taking it way back.

Rosie: That's taken way back. Yeah. It's on an adult movie, but I do really love the new, what is it?

Klaus Klaus.

Mari: Oh,

Taylor: Oh

yeah.

Rosie: animated

Mari: one

that I cried. Love that.

Rosie: Um, yeah, I love the animation. [00:49:00] I love the art direction and the story is, is great. So they're both, both things I named for kids movies. That's, that's where I'm at.

Mari: what? If we get together this season, we can watch the family stone and we can watch Christmas vacation.

Rosie: That's right. Wait, I, uh, before we end, I wanted to ask, is it, did you have an idea of a way that you're gonna create magic for yourself? I was thinking I was gonna get myself an advent calendar 'cause I've never gotten one for

Mari: Ooh.

Taylor: Oh,

Mari: Ooh.

Taylor: I love that.

Mari: one. Do you know about the Bon Ma? Mom? Mont? Oh my gosh.

Bon Maman

Rosie: Oh,

Mari: Jam

Rosie: oh, it's jam.

Mari: you know that brand with the checkered

Rosie: My sister got it last year. 'cause her, her birthday is, uh, either like on or right around like this year, it's the day before Thanksgiving and last year she got the jam calendar. That's what

Mari: I'm not gonna lie.

Taylor: so instead of Jelly of the Month,

Mari: Right? I know. Every time

Rosie: of the day.

Mari: I think [00:50:00] about that. I do. But the cool thing is like, one of 'em was like strawberry chocolate cardamom, like spread

like they're, they're really, they're bougie

Rosie: Or like passion fruit, like, 'cause we don't have that here.

Taylor: Wow.

Mari: I know. Anyway,

yes. I

love the idea of an advent calendar.

Taylor: I think I'm gonna do that for myself too. I always see the chocolate ones and I'm like, my kids wouldn't like those, but

I would like that.

Mari: you would love that. I think, I wanna try to like, year before last, Ryan and I were like, we need to watch some of the movies that like, we don't necessarily watch with the kids, but like, you've got mail, kind of a Christmas

Rosie: Oh yeah.

Taylor: Mm-Hmm.

Mari: and we just watched it one night together and like, we were just cackling and you know, like it was, it was so

nostalgic and nice. Yeah. Like, I don't know, I feel like there's so many new things to watch

on shows,

Rosie: adult

Christmas movie night.

Mari: An adult

Rosie: More than just cuddles on the couch.

Taylor: Oh

Rosie: don't come down. Kids[00:51:00]

Mari: don't come down the chimney

Oh man. The Triple X mo No, I'm kidding. That is not what we'll be doing,

um,

Taylor: I saw mommy kissing Santa Claus.

Mari: But maybe

Rosie: bike

Mari: Ma. Magic Mike. That

Rosie: Honey,

I want you to do this

Mari: please. I don't,

Taylor: All right, y'all. This has devolved something that I like very much.

Mari: I thought you were gonna scold us and you're like, no, this is great. Keep going. Okay. So yeah, so maybe taking time like with my husband to kind of do some fun holiday ish stuff to make magic for both of us.

Rosie: Oh yeah. Like a holiday, A Christmas day. Actually, there's, um, there's an organization,

Mari: called a Christmas date,

probably

Rosie: I was gonna say there's a company called The Dating Initiative in Chattanooga and you can like, hire them [00:52:00] to like plan out a date for you so that that can take Yeah, so that's not on you or

Mari: Hmm.

Rosie: You're the magic just happens.

Um,

so maybe look into that. I, I also wanted to plug, um, if you need some like resources and feeling overwhelmed in like how to have these conversations with your spouse. There is the book Fair Play, which is more, it's not, you know, just about Christmas, but includes, you know, one of the things it talks about is Holiday Magic being a task. And there are, um, there's a podcast called Time to Lean, and they talk, uh, primarily about the division of household labor and they have come out with a, it's called The Time to Lean, thriving for the Holidays Toolkit. So they have this like downloadable, you have to pay for it, but it's like a downloadable toolkit of different.

Activities or prompts or questions that you can do with your partner in order to feel good about the holiday season and not feel overwhelmed [00:53:00] and be on the same page?

Taylor: I would like to challenge, uh, our listeners to leave comments with, Christmas movies, that they turn into adult themes. 'cause that sounds fun to me. How we were doing just

a moment ago. I feel like the possibilities are endless.

Mari: Oh

Rosie: what? Like a kid's Christmas movie that you make A adult . Is that what you mean?

Taylor: You take it how you want. Rosie

Rosie: Okay. An aside, you know how . How, uh, prince , prince Tuesday and Daniel Tiger is always doing like, he has so many odd jobs around the neighborhood

Taylor: Mm-Hmm?

Rosie: and I always joke with my husband that it's 'cause he is trying to get weed money and

Mari: Prince Tuesday does seem like. That would be

Taylor: That tracks. That

Rosie: babysits, he coaches a baseball team. He works at the grocery store. He does it all.

Mari: he does it all for that weeded

money. [00:54:00]

Rosie: He is a teenager.

Mari: how this episode has devolved

Taylor: Tiz tis the season to do what makes us happy y'all.

Mari: Rosie. You're gonna have a, a bear of a time editing this one.

Rosie: Rudolph is gonna get lit 'cause he literally is

Taylor: I thought you were gonna say laid. Let's, let's hope that

Rudolph gets lit and

laid

Rosie: he, I think he does though with Clarice.

Mari: Yeah,

Rosie: Because he gets, he's a grownup deer by the end of it. Right.

Taylor: Listen,

Rosie: And they have a relationship.

Mari: He's a full grown buck.

Rosie: Santa needs more lights for his leg. And that's only gonna happen

Mari: The closet meter has

Taylor: y'all, I'm gonna have to go Cool down.

Mari: Woo.

Taylor: All right.

Rosie: All right. Well, thanks for joining us on this episode, . Love you too. Um, thanks on Holiday Magic for [00:55:00] yourself. And yeah, see what's on your list that you can let go of and talk to your spouse about it too. You know, get on the same page with your spouse. I think that's key.

Taylor: Absolutely. Happy holidays y'all.

Rosie: Happy holidays,

Mari: Happy holiday. This Okay magic Mike. Go make that holiday Magic comma Mike

Taylor: woo.

This was a bit of a longer chatty episode, but we hope you enjoyed it and also that you feel encouraged to create more boundaries and have those conversations with your partner or family about what you want the holidays to look like so that everyone can enjoy it. You can find resources mentioned in this episode in the show notes.

Moms for Social Justice is a 501c4, and if you would like to support us, you can also find a link to do that in the notes as well. I'm gonna go look up some Christmas movies to watch, and we'll see you [00:56:00] back here in two weeks.